428city: March 2006

Monday, March 20, 2006

there is a performance by the UW-Wisconsin marching band coming up at Oshkosh North high School. The performance is a fundraiser for the Oshkosh Seniors Center..which is run 70% by tax payer funds.
Can we relate the performance to the Common Council, the center's value to the city, etc.
The marketing lady already called me.
-laura

Thursday, March 16, 2006

I think that a story about the near east redevelopment plan would be good.

The city is currently buying up several houses with plants to redevlop and sell them.
But I know that many of these houses are being sold at below the market value.

The logic behind this is that fixing up these houses would improve the overall look of the community. Also, it would provide for a better living environment since the houses will be fixed up and in better condition.
My question is...

How did these houses be allowed to deteriorate in the first place?
Why is this allowed?
Because of the type of people who live in them?
If you pay cheap rent does that mean that you can't live in a decent, healthy place?

How are the developers chosen to fix up these buildings?
--this is the most interesting fact we need to find out.

I heard rumors that development rights to some of the places were getting preferenced to certain people..and were cutting out competition.

If you look at development from a business standpoint, fixing something up cheaply and then selling it or renting it at a much higher price would be the money making strategy here.

If a city pressures someone into selling, at a below value price, then selling it or renting it out for considerably more...isn't there something fishy here?

If you watched the recent common council meeting, Susan Kepplinger and the city council don't look like they get along very well.

This is something we should look up on.

The Near East redevelopment plan is part of the great city redevelopment plan tha tis currently the size of a book.

I have an interview set up with

Allyn Dannhoff
Thursday March 30
3PM
in room 205 of city hall.

He is inviting another inspector from the university area to sit-in on the meeting.

We will be asking questions about
how poor house conditions are so prevalent in the university area.

Let’s get as many names and incident details to use as examples for this meeting.

Nicole—since Anne Thiel used one of her relatives as a source for one of her stories I would say that is okay then, to use your roommate as a source for your incident.

Who can and can’t be there?
-Laura

Allyn Dannhoff
adannhoff@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
Director of Inspection Services
(Commercial Building & Heating)
236-5045

The Oshkosh Common Council voted Tuesday that Five Rivers must turn in final financial plans to the council by a deadline as a last straw for deliberations on the project.

The vote carried with a four to two outcome since council member Meredith Scheuermann was absent from the meeting, even though she was part of the meeting that initially created the first Term Sheet and brought the issue to Tuesday's agenda.

The Term Sheet is comprised of Common Council-made requirements Five Rivers must follow in order to receive financial aid from the city.

The vote is an amendment of the first Term Sheet and allows for the proposed June 20, 2006 construction start date to be held back until Sept.20, 2006. The compromise is that Doig must turn in complete financial plans to the council by a May 31 deadline.

The compromise came after Doig admitted that original June 20, 2006 construction deadline in the Term Sheet could not be met.

"Development in the central city area would be fantastic, but as we've walked down this road there have been some issues," said mayor Bill Castle. "We'll give him until May 31 to get over these issues or we'll say we're through with you."

The security of benefits to the city over the resorts construction on a TIF district continue to remain unsteady in the eyes of some council members.

Councilor Paul Esslinger , a continuous proponent of TIF districts, expressed dismay over the 27-year payback term for the TIF district thus influencing his 'no' vote for Term Sheet amendment.

Councilor Brian Bain told the meeting that he enthusiastically supported the original Term Sheet but no longer sees support of the project as appropriate.

"I now have serious concerns about this project and the developer , and my confidence is no longer there," he said. "I don't feel like an extra three months will change that."

Though a more leery eye over the future of the project reigned over the council, continued support came from its constant supporters stayed steady.

"We've never had a $60 million dollar plan come to Oshkosh," said council member , Shirley Braubender Mattox. "But I'm willing to give this one more chance."

Wednesday, March 08, 2006

Oshkosh City Manager
Richard A. Wollangk

1965 ARLINGTON DR,
OSHKOSH, WI 54904

920-236-5000

2005 salary
100,819 plus health insurance

Current Assessed Values of home property
Assessment Year 2005
Land $34,100
Building $102,000
Total $136,100
Fair Market Value $133,700
Prior Assessed Values
Assessment Year 2004
Land $30,700
Building $72,600
Total $103,300

Member of:
Oshkosh Chamber of Commerce

Court Case Record on File
go HERE

Five human sources:

Mrs. Wollangk?
Melody Wollangk (is she related?)
Bill Castle
Jackson Kinney
his secretary (if he has one)
an old professor
boss at former job.

Relevant articles...
by James Simmons

-"Mayor or Manager? The Voters Choice for Oshkosh," COLS Dean's Symposia, Fall 1996, Oshkosh.

- "City Government Performance," (with S. Simmons) 2000 Conference on the Small City and Regional Community, Madison.
-
"Oshkosh city government labors under system of past, not future," Northwestern, April 26, 1998, A11.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The city manager is suposed to be a person who is very knowlegable of city issues, problems, how to fix them, while also being one who holds power to make decisions based on recommendations of City Council and/or of private citizens. Oshkosh city manager Richard Wollangk is a leading guy in Oshkosh city government and that is why he a figure that people should know more about.
He has only been manager since 1997.

How long did the previoius manager or person of his similar position stay in office?

Questions to answer along the way...

Bio
Born
Raised
Education
Work experience
Family--Married, kids?
Does he like his job?

Why work in a civil servant position?

What are rewards and drawback to being city manager?

Are you going to hold this position until you retire?

If you had to decribe Oshkosh to someone, what would you say?

What do you think of the people here?

What kind of improvements-do you think this Oshkosh can have--
even if they are slightly unrealistic regarding current budget matters?

What are some of the people that have influenced your life the most?
How does this affect your life or even your job?

Are there any problems within the city that are many times overlooked?
Like maybe--poverty--unfair labor practices? Why are they over looked?

Oshkosh is not a perfect city. What are it's imperfections?
What are some of its unique and characteristics?

Monday, March 06, 2006

http://www.advancetitan.com/story.asp?issue=11004&story=2452

AT story about tenant rights

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:NvZTW3pUGt4J:www.oshkoshchamber.com/pdfs/BID_Operating_Plan_2006.pdf+Oshkosh+residential+property+owners&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=7

business improvement district operating plan

Thursday, March 02, 2006

Jerry Frey can see Picnic Point from the window of his lakefront home.

“There is beautiful wildlife there,” Frey said. “It would be sad to see it go.”

Frey, along with several citizens, fears potential development on the land located on the north east side of Oshkosh.

Picnic Point, approximately 117-acres of state-owned property on the Winnebago Mental Health Institute grounds, may soon be put up for sale. Profits from the sale would be used to help relieve the statewide budget crisis.

Frey, a 40-year resident of the area, and Town of Oshkosh chairman, pleaded with the Common Council last Tuesday, to support the acquisition of the land by the Department of Natural Resources. If the DNR could acquire the land, then possibly this natural pristine area he loves so dearly could be preserved. He persuaded the council to agree with him on a 6-1 vote, and even got the Winnebago County Board to vote in his favor 37-0. But his battle hasn’t even begun.

The vote from the council Tuesday is only a mere recommendation by the city on a decision that is made in Madison.
The decision determining who the land would be sold to is in the hands of the Wisconsin State Building Commission. If and when the decision is made is still unknown.

“If the decision does come up to agenda, that would in some way or another trickle down to the media in Madision and even to local governments,” said Tom Solberg, a spokesman for the State Department of Administration.

But as the future of Picnic Point is still in a gray area, many are looking at possiblities for what may happen to the land.

The property is one of the few undeveloped areas of shoreline along Lake Winnebago.

The DNR, a state-owned entity, has expressed a great interest in acquiring the land from the state. The DNR supports a title transfer of the land but does not seek to purchase it. If they can’t get a title-transfer from the state, then they would support any entity or agency that promises not to develop on the property.

“This is one of the last bits of undeveloped shoreline on the western shore of Lake Winnebago,” said Kendall Kamke, a DNR senior fisheries biologist. “It’s priceless; when it’s developed it’s gone forever."

The goal of the DNR is to preserve, protect and enhance the environment.
Kamke said that the state should consider what kind of losses and gains might develop from the sale of the property.

“Is the permanent loss of this land worth the short-term monetary gains of selling it?" Kamke asked.

Another point of interest is the documented archeological sites located on the property. Native Americans are known to have once inhabited the area before Oshkosh was established.

The area, containing several waterways and high ground resource areas, made the area an attractive spot for ancient inhabitants.

“The city of Oshkosh had a major prehistoric occupation,“ said Jeffrey Behm, an anthropology professor at UW-Oshkosh. “We don’t know much about this site because it hasn’t been investigated enough, but it may be incredibly important.”

The only law that may protect the site from disturbance is if a burial site is discovered. Under Wisconsin State Statute 157, a burial site must be excavated.

If a burial site is discovered, then the financial responsibility of excavating bodies from the site is in the hands of the developer.

"If there are burials at Picnic Point, a developer may not find it until they start construction," Behm said. "That's the worst way of finding something because it's already partially destroyed."

Fifteen Indian graves were found in April 2005 at a construction site of Neenah’s Water Filtration Plant along Lake Winnebago. The graves were discovered during the trenching of a storm sewer.

The bodies were excavated by the Great Lakes Archeological Research Center of Milwaukee and construction was allowed to continue.
The cost was estimated to be between $20 to $25 thousand that the Water Treatment plant had to pay for.

The only laws that protect an archeological site stop there.

State law requires an archeological survey to be conducted on any state-owned land that is sold.

If there is no burial site discovered, then no law will protect an archeological site from being disturbed or destroyed. A covenant may be issued, which is an agreement betweent the property owner and the Wisconsin Historical Society, to not disturb the site in excange for a property tax exemption.

“The site has potential for stratified deposit which can tell us who came before who,” said Robert Watson, principle investgator of the Great Lakes Archeological Research Center. "This is not very common in Wisconsin.”

Behm sees potential historical importance of the archeological site on Picnic Point.

"Not everybody reads books but it would be a loss if someone was to bulldoze a library," Behm said. "It would be a great loss of history."

Jerry Frey can see Picnic Point from the window of his lakefront home.

“There is beautiful wildlife there,” Frey said. “It would be sad to see it go.”

Frey, along with several citizens, fears potential development on Picnic Point.

Picnic Point, a 117.5 piece of currently state-owned land, is possibly up for sale by the state of Wisconsin. Profits from the sale would go towards helping the state’s budget crisis.

Frey, a long time resident of the area and town of Oshkosh commisioner, pleaded with the Common Council last Tuesday, to support the acquisition of the land by the Department of Natural Resources. If the DNR could acquire the land, then possibly this natural pristine area he loves so dearly could be preserved. He got the Common Council to agree with him on a 6-1 vote, he even got the Winnebago County Board to vote in his favor 37-0. But his battle hasn’t even begun.

The vote from the council Tuesday is only a mere recommendation by the city on a decision that is made in Madison.
The decision on to who the land is sold and who it goes to is in the hands of the Wisconsin State Building Commision. If and when the decision is made is still unknown.

“If the decision does come up to agenda that would in some way or another trickle down to the media in Madision and even to local governments,” said Tom Solberg, secretary of the State Department of Administration.

But as the future of Picnic Point is still a grey-area, many are looking to possibilities of what may happen to the land.

The property north of Oshkosh is one of the few undeveloped areas of shoreline along Lake Winnebago.

The DNR, a state-owned entity, has expressed a great interest in aquiring the land from the state. The DNR support a title-transfer of the land but does not seek to actually buy it. If they can’t get a title-transfer from the state, then they support any entity or agency that promises to not develop on the property.

“This is one of the last bits of undeveloped shore line on the western shore of Lake Winnebago,” said Kendall Kamke, a DNR senior fisheries biologist. “ It’s priceless, when it’s developed it’s gone forever.’

The DNR’s goal is to preserve and protect and enhance the environment.
Kamke said that the state should consider what kind of loses and gains may come from the sale of the property.

“Is the permanent loss of this land worth the short-term monetary gains of selling it ? “ said Kamke.

Another point of interest is the documented archeological sites located on the property.
Native Americans are known to have once inhabited the area long before Oshkosh was established.

The area, with several waterways, and high ground of resource areas made the area an attractive spot for ancient inhabitants.

“The city of Oshkosh had a major prehistoric occupation, “ said Jeffrey Behm, an anthroplogy professor at UW-Oshkosh. “We don’t know much about this site because it hasn’t be investigated enough but it may be incredibly important.”

The only law that may protect the site from disturbance is when a burial site is discovered. Under state statute 157 , a burial site must be excavated blah blah blah.”

It a burial site is discovered, then it the financial responsibility of developing the site is on the hands of the developer.

In April 2005, 15 Indian graves were found at construction site of Neenah’s Water Filtration Plant along Lake Winnebago. The graves were discovered in April 2005 during the trenching of a storm sewer.

The bodies were excavated by the Great Lakes Archeological Research Center of Milwaukee and the construction was allowed to resume.
The cost was estimated to be between 20 to 25 thousand dollars that the Water Treatment plant had to pay for.

The only laws that protect an archeological site stop there.
If a burial site is not found on the property, then a site has no protection from disturbance except for a covenant given by the Wisconsin Historical Society.

“Disturbace of archeological sites we hope would be avoided, but at the moment a
Any landowner who owns a piece of property containing an archeological site, can be granted a covenant, which is an agreement to not disturb the property but then being granted an exception from property taxes.

Since Picnic Point is an undeveloped piece of property, the value of potential fieldwork is priceless.

“The site has potential for stratified deposit which can tell us who came before whom,” said Robert Watson, principle investgator of the Great Lakes Archeological Research Center. ‘’This is not very common in Wisconsin.”

Why preserve anything? Some people only see benefit on building new, but most importantly an archeological site is irreplaceable, if you destroy it it’s gone forever.

Not everybody reads books but it would be a loss is someone was to bulldoze a library and destroy all the history in there.

“There is state law that requires archeological survey on any land that transfers out of state hands,” said Leslie Eisenberg, coordinator of the burial sites preservation program for the Wisconsin Historical Society.

Jerry Frey can see Picnic Point from the window of his lakefront home.

“There is beautiful wildlife there,” Frey said. “It would be sad to see it go.”

Picnic Point, a 117.5 piece of currently state-owned land, is possibly up for sale by the state of Wisconsin. Profits from the sale would go towards helping the state’s budget crisis.

Frey, a long time resident of the area and town of Oshkosh commisioner, pleaded with the Common Council last Tuesday, to support the acquisition of the land by the Department of Natural Resources. If the DNR could acquire the land, then possibly this natural pristine area he loves so dearly could be preserved. He got the Common Council to agree with him on a 6-1 vote, he even got the Winnebago County Board to vote in his favor 37-0. But his battle hasn’t even begun.

The vote from the council Tuesday is only a mere recommendation by the city on a decision that is made in Madison.
The decision on to who the land is sold and who it goes to is in the hands of the Wisconsin State Building Commision. If and when the decision is made is still unknown.

“If the decision does come up to agenda that would in some way or another trickle down to the media in Madision and even to local governments,” said Tom Solberg, secretary of the State Department of Administration.

But as the future of Picnic Point is still a grey-area, many are looking to possibilities of what may happen to the land.

The property north of Oshkosh is one of the few undeveloped areas of shoreline along Lake Winnebago.

The DNR, a state-owned entity, has expressed a great interest in aquiring the land from the state. The DNR support a title-transfer of the land but does not seek to actually buy it. If they can’t get a title-transfer from the state, then they support any entity or agency that promises to not develop on the property.

“This is one of the last bits of undeveloped shore line on the western shore of Lake Winnebago,” said Kendall Kamke, a DNR senior fisheries biologist. “ It’s priceless, when it’s developed it’s gone forever.’

The DNR’s goal is to preserve and protect and enhance the environment.
Kamke said that the state should consider what kind of loses and gains may come from the sale of the property.

“Is the permanent loss of this land worth the short-term monetary gains of selling it ? “ said Kamke.

Another point of interest is the documented archeological sites located on the property.
Native Americans are known to have once inhabited the area long before Oshkosh was established.

The area, with several waterways, and high ground of resource areas made the area an attractive spot for ancient inhabitants.

“The city of Oshkosh had a major prehistoric occupation, “ said Jeffrey Behm, an anthroplogy professor at UW-Oshkosh. “We don’t know much about this site because it hasn’t be investigated enough but it may be incredibly important.”

The only law that may protect the site from disturbance is when a burial site is discovered. Under state statute 157 , a burial site must be excavated blah blah blah.”

It a burial site is discovered, then it the financial responsibility of developing the site is on the hands of the developer.

In April 2005, 15 Indian graves were found at construction site of Neenah’s Water Filtration Plant along Lake Winnebago. The graves were discovered in April 2005 during the trenching of a storm sewer.

The bodies were excavated by the Great Lakes Archeological Research Center of Milwaukee and the construction was allowed to resume.
The cost was estimated to be between 20 to 25 thousand dollars that the Water Treatment plant had to pay for.

The only laws that protect an archeological site stop there.
If a burial site is not found on the property, then is has no protection from disturbance except for a covenant given by the Wisconsin Historical Society.
Any landowner who owns a piece of property containing an archeological site, can be granted a covenant, which is an agreement to not disturb the property but then being granted an exception from property taxes.

Since Picnic Point is an undeveloped piece of property, the value of potential fieldwork is priceless.

“The site has potential for stratified deposit which can tell us who came before whom,” said Robert Watson,

Common Council member Shirley Brabender Mattox wrote the piece to be brought up and discussed by the Common Council.

Quote on why Shirley brought this to the council? Why does she think the council’s approval may help?

Thus creating a conundrum, how does a state-run organization get control of land that the state wants to sell for profit?

Other concerns of possible development on the property is the known existence of Indian habitats and possible burial grounds on the property.

“It is known that people lived here,” said Behm.

The land has never formally been surveyed, so the archeological value of the area is not state known. Unless this land is assessed, there is no protection of the possible historic value of the land. The only laws that protect ancient Indian habitation sites are the presence of possible burial grounds.

“If anybody developed on the area and they came across a burial ground, it would be their responsibility to cover the excavation of it,” said Behm. “That could increase cost dramatically and that may concern the developer but when someone discovers a burial ground, in essence, it’s already been partially destroyed.”

In the summer of 2005, 15 Indian graves were found at the site of Neenah’s Water Filtration Plant along Lake Winnebago. The graves were discovered in April 2005 during the digging of a storm sewer.

Jerry Frey
Town of Oshkosh-on the lake…

Look out my window right now I can see the point we are talking out.
You know you have to understand there is gravestyle.

So…why would you ever want that developed there is nothing left on this lake anymore.there is no more lake frontage left to the public.actually the state owns it now.it’s not open to the public..the lake frontage..we need more greenspace..whatever for 20 30 40 years there is not that much left.it will all e gone and that will be it

People from the city..they don’t have a place to fish no place to go anymore…
I live on the lake..I can see the point that we are talking about..I’m from the town of Oshkoshso I get a lot of complaints about people fishing in front yards.you name it.it’s beautiful wildlife..the township already owns 42 acresthe corner of snell and high way 8
It would be great to keep it a wildlife area for the rest as long as we can

When the state puts it up for grabs..state agencies have the first shot—the DNR-so the local DNR are interested in it..that doesn’t mean they have to get it.

HAS to be quite soon because it’s a budget thing—they want to sell it to offset the budget defeicit

I would say it would have to be winin the next couple three months..and it’s not going to go through the legislator.-it’s an administration decision
We feel the best way to do it….the county board 37-nothing resolution.
Get in put from these entities…that say don’t want it sold to devleopeers
But DNR is a state agency so they won’t get monty for it.
So if that doesn’t work ..local entities..county---purchase it..town…
They will get the 2nd shot
Then after it will go to private ownership—maybe someone with a lot of money may want to buy

We want to keep it out of developers hands..keep it in it’s natural state
I’ve been down to Madison..talked to Mike Ellis Carol Roessler…Greg Underheim..they have helped us.—they talked to the administration said tell it to preserve it.
Or not to sell it.
The best thing to keep it like it is ..not to sell it..

Supervisor from the town-
Town chairman town of Oshkosh-

Of course..that 42 acres that we purchased.it’s for green space..we rent it out to the farmers..western ballroom..we have another couple of hundred acres donated..greenspace forever..114 acres will remain natural state or farmed fover we like to do that..really good for city residents as well as town.city people don’t have a lot of land.so they have place to go..enjoy you know how it goes.

117 acres
Inbetween carponds and state institution..the 3700 feet of lake frontage starts at the end of
Everybody fishes there.and the lighthouse.extends from the lighhous all the way to the lake to the instituion..a big wooded point.it’s always sbeen a park for the state hosipital for th eworkrs and patients.

Probably 6 weeks ago….
About a month a go…it was in the paper..saw it in the paper…we never though the governor
There is a lot more properties that are up for sale.this doesn’t have to go.but they will pick and choose and it is on the line.
The more people we get too..a lot of the employees don’t want to see it go.it is important to them..
That’s about it.
40 years…
there isn’t enough places for the public green
I guess that’s there problem
Everybody has to get out once and a while..a lot of the out here appreciate itit’s good fo rthe air..it’s good for everything..and kids all like animals.nature.it’s good to get your kids out there.

Heritage preservation

Robert Watson
Principle investigator

It’s a possibility you can never totally count on it..the personIron thing laws would apply to this site..if one of them was destirbued..if there was a village there it could plow through it if it is sold to a private developer..I don’t know how it would apply if the state..

Might have to survey it—don’t know for sure---two people who you can call…insite

Never encountered any thing like that ..I can’t tell ou what may happen..

As far as I understand..they can sell it..the law 44-44 does not cover

Bodies will be repatriated…they will be reburied..the menominee tribe is going to be doing that.

Happens when you have something like that.the tribes can play cultural patrimony or interest they don’t need to show that they were related they can show ..tribe have an interest in any native American remains therefore out of respect for

Posted May 12, 2005

Fifteen graves found in Neenah

Experts believe Indian burial site extends farther

By Duke Behnke
Post-Crescent staff writer

NEENAH — Fifteen total graves have been discovered by archaeologists excavating an American Indian burial ground at Neenah’s water plant, and additional graves appear to lie to the south.
“It’s clear that burials do continue in that direction,” Leslie Eisenberg, coordinator of the burial sites preservation program for the Wisconsin Historical Society, said Wednesday. “We can see archaeological evidence of that.”
The likely extension of the burial ground south of the water plant site and into Recreation Park could cause additional problems for the ongoing construction of Neenah’s new $25.7 million water plant along Lake Winnebago.
A service road to reach the back of the new plant is designed to run along the property line — exactly where the additional graves are suspected to be.
Eisenberg said she would consult the five American Indian tribes that have shown an interest in the site (Menominee, Ho-Chunk, Forest County Potawatomi, Sac and Fox of Iowa and Oneida Nation) before ruling whether the city can proceed with the road.
The graves documented thus far have been at least 18 inches below the surface. The base of the road would reach 15 inches below ground.
“If the city is allowed to place the road on top of the burials, any soil disturbance or grading that needs to occur will be monitored by an archaeologist,” Eisenberg said.
Corinna Williams, historic preservation officer for the Oneida Nation, said she opposes the placement of the road over the burial ground. She said the city, state and tribes must work together to find “a solution of nondisturbance.”
“This is a very upsetting issue for all of the tribes,” Williams said. “We want to get this resolved as soon as we can.”
David Grignon, historic preservation officer for the Menominee Indian Tribe of Wisconsin, said he had not yet visited the site, and declined to comment on the situation.
Neenah Water Works Director Larry Wettering said he thinks the service road, which would be built with Geoblock (a porous pavement system) and seeded with grass, can be constructed without disturbing the burial ground.
“We would be above the graves,” he said.
The burial ground was inadvertently discovered last month during excavation for a storm sewer at the water plant.
Great Lakes Archaeological Research Center of Milwaukee since has completed exhumation of the immediate area, allowing the storm sewer work to resume as early as today.
Eisenberg said the remains still need to be analyzed and inventoried, and the excavated soils need to be fine-screened to search for bone fragments and “anything that wasn’t visible to the naked eye.”
The graves are believed to date to the 1600s. Eisenberg said archaeologists have yet to determine the tribe to whom the remains belong. Once that is established, the remains will be repatriated.
Neenah Parks and Recreation Director Eileen McCoy said the likelihood of graves at Recreation Park is cause to reflect on the area’s history.
She said she was not aware of any graves uncovered during the reconstruction of the park’s swimming pool in 1996 or during the original pool construction in 1940.
“In hindsight, you feel bad that the area was disturbed at all, but that happened well before we were here,” McCoy said.

Posted Apr. 27, 2005

Neenah burial ground studied

Archaeologists will probe bones at water plant site

By Duke Behnke
Post-Crescent staff writer

NEENAH — Archaeologists will arrive today to dig into the mystery of an American Indian burial ground that was discovered last week during the construction of Neenah’s new water plant.
The city hired Great Lakes Archeological Research Center of Milwaukee to exhume the site, which is situated along the water plant’s south property line midway between Lake Winnebago and S. Park Avenue.
American Indian artifacts and bones from at least two people were inadvertently unearthed last week during excavation for a storm sewer.
“I think there are probably more (graves) from what these archaeologists are saying, but they won’t be sure until they get in there,” said Larry Wettering, Neenah’s water works director.
Leslie Eisenberg, coordinator of the burial sites preservation program for the Wisconsin Historical Society, said the bones are believed to date to the 1600s. She has notified four American Indian tribes — the Menominee, Ho-Chunk, Potawatomi, and Sac and Fox of Iowa — of the discovery because it lies within their ancestral territories.
Eisenberg said the bones, once they have been exhumed, could be moved to tribal lands for reburial, allowing construction of the storm sewer to proceed.
The discovery has alarmed segments of the American Indian community, which holds its ancestors sacred.
Garland Twohawk Walker, a Cherokee from Beeville, Texas, told The Post-Crescent Tuesday that the burial ground should not be disturbed.
“The plant should be moved,” Walker said. “You can find another ground to build a plant on. If it was a white man’s grave or a black man’s grave, they wouldn’t bother it.”
Wettering said the archaeologists will comb through an area 50 feet long by 8 feet wide.
“The graves may go beyond that point, but we don’t have to excavate beyond that point” for the storm sewer, Wettering said.
The archaeological work is expected to last seven to 10 days and cost $20,000 to $25,000. The payment will be drawn from the contingency fund for the $25.7 million water plant.
Wettering said the city has hired a security guard to protect the site whenever construction workers and archaeologists are not present.
“It is a construction site,” he said. “We would like people to stay away.”
Eisenberg said Neenah would have been wise to have had an archaeologist on site during the initial excavation but acknowledged the city had no legal requirement to do so.
“We have records of village sites all around the area where the bones were found,” she said. “Any place around Lake Winnebago you are more likely than not to find burials.”
Eisenberg said only a handful of unmarked American Indian graves are uncovered each year in Wisconsin.
“It’s not something that happens on a regular basis, thankfully,” she said. “You don’t want to see anyone’s cemeteries dug up.”

Let's try and get into touch with the people on the bottom--
the most important is the last name (guy from Madison)

I have class until 3 pm.
Anyone who can try and get something before then would be much help!!

Let's try and get a Indian Tribe's opinion on this matter--I"m sure they'll be interested.

Also.I don't have time to get a link...
but there is an article in the post crecent about the indian grave findings..

John Broihahn
state archeologist
(608) 264-6504

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/archaeology/
go here for more info

We can ask him what laws protect this land since this is a known archeological site.
Site example of gravesites found along the lakeshore of Lake Winnebago in Neenah.
What laws official protect this land?
Does this land have to be surveyed for archeological value in order to be sold?
What if it isn't sold? Then what is going to happen to this site--is it going to continue to sit there?
Are there any historical markers for former Indian settlements in Wisconsin?

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/hp/burialsites/about/

above is a link to the burial sites program

Carla Lee Murphy
Ho-Chunk Nation Public Relations
1800-726-7509

What do you think of the the selling of this land?
What if it isn't sold? what are you opinions?
What about the graves found in Neenah?
What happened to them?

According to Behm, this may have been the former settlement of decendents of the Ho-Chunk.

Contact for Oneida Nation
Communications Dept.: 1-800-236-2214

Shirley Brau(something) Maddox
233-2833

Why did you bring this up to the City Council?
Do you know who has the final say?
How will the public know about when the decision is made?
What do you hope the Council's support of the DNR aquisition can do in Madision?
What value do you see in the property?
Can you give a more specific description on where it is located?
---like coordinates (between Mental Health property and DNR property?)

Do you think the state can override the financial aspects of selling the property and consider utilzing it for another purpose?

What are known arguments for the land to not go up for sale?

George Sherk
Mayor Of Neenah
Phone: 920/886-6104

What happened to the graves near the Neenah waterplant?

Mark Madison
Phone: (920) 231-7155

Can get quotes from meeting...??

Guy from Madison (name and number from Eric's post)

Do you think the state can override the financial aspects of selling the property and consider utilzing it for another purpose?

How will the public be able to have an input in this decision?

How will the public know when the decision will take place?

Who makes the final decison?

http://www.uwex.edu/ces/cty/winnebago/cnred/documents/shoreseries2.pdf.

link to shoreline development info..

people I have talked to

Madison guy(Dept.of Administration)
Jeffrey Behm
David Barnhill
DNR guy

Couldn't get in touch with

Greg Underheim
still playing phone tag with Gerry Frey
Shirley Maddox

I have class until 3 pm.
I'll be in the AT office after that.
if you all want to congregate there.

I have class until 11:20...
the Department of Utility with Bob Cramer is who we NEED to talk to.
If someone has time can maybe someone else call him?

He is the guy will be able to tell us when exactly this decision will be made,
how the public will be informed of this decision,
and if the fact that the DNR sees value in this land, citizens don't want to see it developed, and it has known archeological value----can this prevent it being sold for profit?

Remember that this issue would have never been brought up if the state is Wisconsin wasn't in a budget crunk.

-Laura

EXTREME ABSTRACT

A parcel of 117.5 acres of state-owned land is potentially up for sale by the state of Wisconsin, and that fact puts fear into Gerry Frey’s heart.

Frey, a long time resident of the area, pleaded with the Common Council last Tuesday, to support the aquisition of the land by the DNR. If the DNR could aquire the land, then possibly this natural pristine area he loves so dearly could be preserved. He got the Common Council to agree with him on a 6-1 vote, his battle hasn’t even begun.

The Gov. Jim Doyle mentioned the possiblity of the land, currently utilitzed the Winnebago Mental Health Institute, as being a surplus piece of property that could be sold with profits helping to stabilize the State budget.

The vote that the Council Tuesday is only a mere recomendation by the city on a decision that is made in Madison.

The North Oshkosh property is one of the few undeveloped areas of shoreline along Lake Winnebago.

The DNR does not want to see development on the land. They support the title of the land to be transffered to the government body, but doesn’t have an interest to physically purchase it. If the DNR can’t get the land title to be transferred then they would support the land to be controlled by an agency that would conserve it.

Common Council member Shirley Braubender Maddox wrote the piece to be brought up and discussed by the Common Council.

Quote on why Shirley brought this to the council? Why does she think the council’s approval may help?

Thus creating a conundrum, how does a state-run organization get control of a land that the State wants to sell for profit?

Other concerns of possible development on the property is the known existence of Indian habitats and possible burial grounds on the property.

“It is known that people lived here,” said Behm.

The land has never formally been surveyed though, so the archelogical value of the area is not state known. Unless this land is assessed, there is no protection of the possible historic value of the land. The only laws that protect ancient Indian habitation sites are the presence of possible burial grounds.

“If anybody developed on the area and they came across a burial ground it would be their responsiblity to cover the excavation of it,” said Behm. “That could increase cost dramatically and that may concern the devleoper But when someone discovers a burial ground, in essence, it’s already been partially destroyed.”

In the summer 2005, 15 Indian graves were found at the site of Neenah’s Water Filtration Plant along Lake Winnebago. The graves were discovered in April 2005 during the digging of a storm sewer.

428city

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